EP.12 - Shadow Work and Parenting with Zarina Parry
SHOW NOTES:
Have you heard of the term shadow work?
Shadow work is the process of exploring and addressing the hidden parts of ourselves in order to better understand our own thoughts, feelings, behaviors, and motivations.
Parenting plays a key role in shadow work, as it often involves facing and confronting aspects of our own childhood that are unresolved or have gone unaddressed.
Understanding shadow work in parenting is an important concept to explore, so I invited my friend, Zarina Parry to discuss more about this topic.
By understanding and practicing shadow work, you become better able to accept all parts of yourselves, model healthier behaviors for your children and ultimately create a more harmonious family dynamic.
Here are the key takeaways from this episode:
5:25 - Parenting is a life career that there is no guidance for.
5:50 - Shadow work is when you work with the unconscious mind.
6:37 - Having children and being a parent is a gift to learn and discover your truest self.
8:16 - You are conditioned to not ask so many questions and just do what you are told.
12:34 - You have to find a safe way to express your emotions.
23:25 - Allow yourself to be like a child and have that curiosity.
About our Guest:
Zarina Parry is Malaysian and is currently living in Petaling Jaya, Malaysia after spending most of her childhood and young adult years living, traveling and working on 3 different continents.
She has 3 children and co-owns Aquabubs, a swim school for babies and children in Malaysia. She is also an energetic healer, writer and a cat and rabbit rescuer.
Her children inspire her to go on many adventures and she is committed to learning about the connection between the body, mind and soul.
Follow her on @zazaparry and @danielandlilyadventures
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I help you lead with fearless authenticity by smashing the self-imposed heteronormative stereotypes that keep you playing small through emotional healing inner child and inherited intergenerational trauma. Create a purposeful life of your unique design by disrupting societal norms and expectations of who you should be. Explore mindfulness, fearless curiosity and loving kindness through the lens of Human Design to thrive as the person you are born to be.
Learn more about my coaching method and join my emotional healing, mindfulness, and music community at melissaindot.com.
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TRANSCRIPT
Zarina Parry 00:00
I'm experiencing love and openness in a different way with that child. And I'm so grateful for that. That's one of the great things about being a parent, we get that from one child or we might get something else from another child. And being curious, being open, and allowing us to have space to explore that, I think is one of the best things about being a parent.
Melissa 00:26
Hey there, welcome to the Fearlessly Curious podcast, you're safe space to listen, lean in and learn the diversity of human experiences through the lens of fearless curiosity. When we learn more about each other, we also learn more about ourselves. How? Because when we listen to each other's curiosities and experiences, we relate to that which has in common, and that which sets us apart, gives us something to reflect on. We learn through and with each other. I am grateful to you, the global community, for your curious questions. The Fearlessly Curious podcast cannot exist without you.
Melissa 01:20
And another episode of the Fearlessly Curious podcast with me, Melissa Indot. And this week, I have another special guest. And she's a really good friend of mine. She's also been a mentor of mine for a while, and I'm so proud to have her on the podcast series this week to have a very interesting conversation on parenting. And why I love Za in particular is because she always lovingly challenges me to explore new ideas, and she gives me the opportunity to really lean into my fearless curiosity. So today, I'd like to introduce and welcome Zarina Parry on to the show. Za welcome. Would you please do the honors of letting our listeners know a little bit about yourself?
Zarina Parry 02:08
Hi, I'm Zarina. And I'm Malaysian born like Melissa, like yourself, I've lived both here and in the United Kingdom. Also in other countries of the world, which has been a great part of my growing up in my experiences. Currently, I work as a swimming school owner. And I teach swimming mainly to children from ages four months to three and a half years old, and parent to three children. And in my spare time, when I have some spare time, you'll see me diving into an ocean as often as I can, or hiking in a jungle.
Melissa 02:49
Awesome. And every now and then I get the opportunity to hike in the jungle with you. So you inspired the topic for today. I know that I invited you to be part of this podcast. But you inspired this topic today. And so if you could share a little bit about why you're curious about this topic, but more importantly, why you think it's important for parents to explore this topic.
Zarina Parry 03:11
Okay, parenting came to mind, because that is first and foremost what I am in this phase of my life. And I think it was in a couple of podcasts back that you had talked about taking the time to self reflect. And that was a podcast, I appreciated because it did make me think, when do I have time to sort of sit with myself and my thoughts, and look back and review what's going on for myself, and for each of my children and their individual requirements, and the collective requirements for us as a family. And I think that the point that you brought across was that we don't allow ourselves that much time I find myself and this week especially have gone from one thing to another, with very little pause and time for reflection. And so when I do give myself that time, then I find that there are insights. And I love those little insights. And I love the insights that I get from my children, when I give ourselves the space to have those conversations. And that for me is one of the exciting things about parenting. And I think that parenting now is very different to when I was a child and the relationship that I had with my parents. And we're going through and I'm sure not just with parenting, but you've seen it too, that this is a transformational time at the moment. Yeah, so I think I said to you, let's talk about parenting because my children are moving from one is going into teenagehood he's 12 going into 13, I have a 10 year old daughter. And then I have my 8 year old youngest. And so I still get to do the fun kitty stuff. Should I say that with my youngest, although I probably wouldn't like it if I said that. But I'm transitioning into that teenager phase with my son. And it's quite different. I don't know if I'm prepared for it yet. Or if we ever are,
Melissa 05:25
Well, first of all, kudos to you for choosing to be a parent. And kudos to all the parents listening as well, because this is a career, if you like, it's a life career that there is no guidance for. There's no guidebook. And although there are parenting coaches out there, and conscious parenting coaches out there, who I have a very high regard for, I think that the biggest journey on parenting is the self discovery journey. And that's really why we're here today. Because Zarina in particular, wanted to explore the topic of shadow work, and parenting, and good old Google has told us that shadow work is when you work with the unconscious mind to uncover the parts of yourself that you repress and hide from yourself. So that part of the unaware part of us, that is actually driving a lot of the way that we live our lives and driving the way we react to life as well. So it's creating a safe space to become aware of our mental and behavioral patterns, that parenting that our children, I should say, mirror to us. Okay, we'll dive a little bit deeper on that today. Because ultimately, children are there for parents at least to be your greatest teachers.
Zarina Parry 06:37
Yes. And what they say is that it's not us that chooses our children, it's our children who choose us. And whether you have one child, two, three, four or five, there are lessons that you will learn from each of them. And bringing it back to that sort of shadow work. There are those triggers that each of those children bring individually and together as a family, and collectively, that, as you said, brings up a lot of the unconscious, subconscious, buried. I don't like to use the word issues, but I think you know what I mean, for want of a better word that we may not have dealt with for a long time. And so and then with a child, it's brought out in full force in front of you. And I won't say issues, I'd say yes, issues, but there's also some great stuff that's brought up to, and love, for example, or laughter, as well as the tears that we go through that having children and being a parent is a gift to us to learn and discover our truest selves.
Melissa 07:48
And that playfulness, right, and curiosity and this is what this entire podcast series is built around and based around that innate curiosity that lives in all of us, but ultimately is conditioned out of us. Were you one of those kids at school where you asked a lot of questions. And then you were told, if you ask why this and you were told, because I said so.
Zarina Parry 08:11
Yes, absolutely.
Melissa 08:13
And are you the parent now who finds yourself saying that to your children?
Zarina Parry 08:16
No, no, thank goodness for Google. I'll say go Google it. I love the questions that my children ask. And I think I learned and was conditioned from an early age to not ask so many questions, and to be expected to listen and do what we were told. And now I find not just with my children, but with children in general. There are so many questions, and they refuse to be told to just do as I say, and not ask any questions. This is a generation of children that we're living with now. And those questions are great. And yes, they can trigger you. And they can make you very impatient. But ultimately, that they're good, because it does encourage us to be curious. And I've gone and done so many different things and looked up different things and tried different things, and tried many different foods, for example, because my eldest is very curious about food that I never would have if I didn't have my children. So I love them for that. And yes, it's always inviting us to be curious, but bringing it back to that issue to be questioned about the shadow side. I have noticed, especially since our locked down months, that I'm yelling a lot more than I ever have. And I don't like that about myself. I don't like that. I would say that dark side of myself and that it's there. I came from a household that was very quiet. There was no arguing in front of the children.
Melissa 10:01
Oh that's key right there, so there was no arguing in front of the children. So there was conflict.
Zarina Parry 10:07
Yes, I'm sure there was conflict and disagreement. But there were never any raised voices.
Melissa 10:15
Which I understand, right. Because ultimately, in front of children, we do make a conscious effort not to raise our voices, or at least to speak with respect to each other. But there's also a conversation to be had about modeling to children, what it's like to be with our emotions, because it's very important for us to know how to connect with our emotions, and be with them in a way that feels safe. And you mentioned anger in particular, interestingly enough, a few episodes ago, I did an episode on anger. So those of you listening, if you haven't heard it, go back and listen to it, and how important it is as an emotion. In traditional Chinese medicine terms. Anger is the emotion that signifies a need for change, something needs to change.
Zarina Parry 10:56
So as a transformational energy.
Melissa 10:59
It's an opportunity to explore boundaries, because a line has been crossed, that's taking you out of alignment or making your environment unsafe in a way. And so when we don't, first of all, when we're not aware that we're angry, we are unable to get clarity on what feels safe and what doesn't. So we can't create a boundary. But more important, if we are angry, and we don't find a way to express it, then we become this pressure cooker that stores is very, very powerful transformational energy, we don't let it transform, we don't let it become something we don't let it inform us of what needs change, and it just becomes caught in our system. And that's why people are nervous, okay, let me be careful. And we'll make sweeping statements here. Often that can cause disease in the system, right? So sometimes that can be the cause of skin conditions, even like eczema, rashes. You think about it fiery, hot, angry skin, irritable skin, right. Sometimes it can even express itself as also asthma, because we're not literally voicing what our needs are. So, breathing affects your breath. But just for clarity, right disclaimer, I'm not a doctor by any stretch of the imagination. But I invite you to be curious about how when we don't navigate our emotions in a healthy way it can manifest it can find another way to express itself through the physical body. So let's go back to anger actually, in the shadow work with anger Za. So you notice that during the lockdown period that you were experiencing more anger than usual?
Zarina Parry 12:34
Yes. And if we go back to what you were saying earlier, that where we were contained, because we weren't able to go out, became a pressure cooker, not just for me, but for every member of the family, and especially for children who couldn't go out and release their energy. A lot of their time was spent online, playing games, engaging in games that sort of would build up whatever energy levels or tension in their bodies. And so I don't like saying act out, but it would cause them to sort of do things differently. Or all of us, actually, I think, so yeah, it was a time for me, I suppose, where there was that frustration with myself having to be contained, and then dealing with the emotions of three energetic children. And I will put in here that I've learned so much about anger with my children, my children are, all three of them are fire signs. And I'm an earth sign. So that fire energy is very natural to the three of them. Not so for me. And so I am definitely learning a lot from the three of them on how to release it, or be part of it, and to let it go, and to not hold on to it. Whereas for me, whether it's childhood conditioning, or part of my personality, I contain it, and I control it. And then it sort of becomes a pressure cooker, which then leads to the yelling. Now I'm on my husband's side, there is some European, there's some Spanish blood there. And they are naturally outspoken, and full of fire. And they show love as much as they show anger and openly. And once it's out there, and then it's expressed, then that's it, you move on, which was a really new thing for me to learn and to understand when I first got married. And now I see it with my children. And it's out. And once it's out, it's out, it's gone. We move on. So that's been one of the biggest learnings for me about anger and that it's not a negative thing.
Melissa 14:56
Beautiful. Yes, it isn't a negative thing. You've learned it from your children. and also owning the fact that our emotions are there for us to navigate. And it's telling you something about yourself. It's not telling you something about the other person. So I'll give you an example of that. You made me angry, because you said this, to me, that is our conditioning, we're always pointing our finger and focusing on the external world, when actually the other perspective would be, I noticed that when that person does that, or says this or behaves in this way, I feel this in my body. This is called anger. And anger, I now know, means that something needs to change. So what am I doing? Or what am I not doing? That is compromising my level of safety? And how can I communicate? I have a need right now, what is that need? And how do I take care of that need? And how do I communicate this to the other person? So actually, a lot of very simple steps, once we know what the steps are, but it's about getting clear. So how does that land for you? I'm processing as I'm saying it out loud. Right?
Zarina Parry 16:03
Yes. And I agree, and that is something. So post, they're sort of locked down a month. So now a year has gone past, and I've had some time for that reflection. And I think yes, I've realized that you can yell, for example, you feel that emotion, but it is a process. And if done in a way that is seen as safe for yourself, and the person or the thing you may be yelling at, then the energy behind it is different. And you know what it's there for. So I agree, I think I say don't hold it in. Definitely good to let it out. But in a way that is safe. And with any work that sort of, as we said, goes back to sort of that shadow work that you may feel is something that's been repressed or that's deep inside you that you don't want other people to see or to know. And you certainly don't want to admit it yourself, then find that safe way for you to understand and come to terms with that emotion. And it is just an emotion. It's just an energy that's within you. And that's part of you. Yeah.
Melissa 17:24
And I think the biggest part of that is that we can invite and create more space for parents, and those of us like me, who support parents, is that compassion piece, right? We're not perfect, we're going to have moments where we aren't going to yell at our kids. And yeah, we'll probably feel possibly, I would say probably because not everybody does will possibly feel guilty about later. And we might even feel some shame. But the most important thing is what we do next, which is to have that open line of communication with your children, and to model to them, because you just modeled what it looks like when you don't navigate anger. Well, what you want to model to them is the self compassion is the humaneness within you, the vulnerability that can come next and the admission of I'm not perfect. And perhaps even an apology. I'm so sorry that that happened, that you saw that, that you witnessed that mummy or daddy is also learning every day, I may be an adult. But these things happen, and I want to be better. And I'm trying my best to be better whatever your language may be. But involve the children and let them know that this is part of the human experience, so that you don't hold on to the guilt and the shame because you have an inner child in you that is requiring love and compassion. And I think parents get very caught up in the adulting part of it. We all have an inner child that needs to be taken care of. And by no means I'm not saying parentify your child. Absolutely not your child is a child, but modeling to them love, which is ultimately what self compassion is, is very hard to go wrong.
Zarina Parry 19:01
Yes. And I think that conversations that we've had over the years, and there is a lot more that's available online and so on about re parenting about the inner child and experiencing the inner child. But it comes back to as your podcast says, being curious. And children help us do that. With each of them. I'm able to explore not just we've talked about anger today, but other emotions as well. And I have for example, I have one child who's the biggest hugger and the other two, not so much. And so, again, I came from a childhood where love was shown in different ways, but hugging definitely wasn't one of them. And so my youngest hugs and loves hugs and loves physical touch. And so I've leaned in into that, and learning from that, as well as I think we all are, I think he needs to hug my eldest child, probably a bit more do with more hugs. But again, I'm experiencing love and openness in a different way with that child. And I'm so grateful for that. That's one of the great things about being a parent, we get that from one child, or we might get something else from another child. And being curious, being open. And allowing us to have space to explore that, I think is one of the best things about being a parent.
Melissa 20:38
That's beautiful. And each of us is different, each of us. And for those of you who have more than one child, right, it's about how you juggle that parenting role. Naturally, you're going to want to take whatever your own value system is. And that comes from your own upbringing, and the way that you've been informed and influenced as you grow up. So you have a value system, and you want to overlay that into your children, it's very important to remember that each of your children is different, and your value system may not fit like a cookie cutter on both of them. So as you know, those are the two tools that I really love to support people with. One is the love language, right? You take the five love languages tests, and you know immediately that your top love language may be different. And the trick is to love each person according to their love language, and not yours. So I'll give a quick example, if my love language is quality time, and Za is touch, I'm going to spend all my life loving the whole world with quality time. But if that other person's love language is touch, they're not going to value quality time, what they're going to value is maybe that hug. So I know that the first thing I'm going to do when I see Za is give her a hug, so that she knows that I love her, that is her love language. And then maybe after that, she'd be my baby a little bit more open to spending quality time with me. So for five love languages one. The second one, of course, is human design, which is the science of differentiation. And I'll invite all listeners here to go and literally Google that go to the Jovian archive, in fact, our website because I'm a purist and I love to go to the original school, so to speak. But essentially, it breaks humanity down into four different types. And from those four different types, you have an anchor or a blueprint from which to associate certain qualities of your children. That way, you can learn how to tweak the way you communicate your value system to your child in a way that they can understand it. Ultimately, human nature is always looking for a hack, we always want to look for the shortest, quickest route. But inevitably, when we look for the shortest quickest route, we actually cut out the best parts. And so we end up struggling and that is life, we struggle because we think my way or the highway, because it's going to be quicker. But we meet a lot of resistance because no two people are the same. So it's been an incredible session with you Za. And of course, shadow work is a massive topic. And we could talk for days, months and years about it. I know what my takeaway would be. But I would love to know what your takeaway is, with regards to shadow work in particular, and parenting?
Zarina Parry 23:25
Well, I would say allowing yourself to be like a child, like the children that you have, and have that curiosity, have that playfulness. And when those triggers come along, they're a trigger because it's opening that shadow side of you, that is not necessarily a dark side, it's just a side that's been hidden from you. And look into that, and see what it's showing you. And you will be surprised. I guarantee it. From what you'll learn and what you'll see. And you'll get a different perspective from each child, or even other members of the family that are there. You may have your husband or your partner, you may be living with a mother or a grandmother or grandfather. And each plays a really important part in an aspect of this life that we have and where we are right at this moment.
Melissa 24:37
Thank you so much. So much that to nourish yourself with these beautiful opportunities as a parent to lean into probably your best teachers in life, your children. The only thing I would add is that let your children be the wonderful excuse to be the child again, which is ultimately what you said. And that's an opportunity also to re-parent yourself as you parent your children, right? The shadow is there because of the light. So as you mentioned, when the shadow shows up, lean into it because it has wisdom for you. That comes from the light part of you that is always there. Thank you so much for being in this session with me, Za and my friends, please make sure you leave a comment and you explore Zarina's business and maybe connect with her as well on her socials. Otherwise, I'll see you on the next episode of Fearlessly Curious.
Melissa 25:39
If you want more, make sure to subscribe so you never miss a new episode every Friday. And please leave a review. If you enjoy this episode. Don't forget to send me your curious questions and experiences as inspiration for future episodes. Your anonymity will be respected if that's what you prefer. For more guidance and support, join my emotional healing mindfulness and music community over at melissaindot.com. See you next week.
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