EP.27 - Navigating Grief with My Mum: Coping Tips & Strategies for Healing
SHOW NOTES:
In this touching and deeply personal conversation, join me and my mum as we navigate the complexities of grief and loss.
Drawing from my mum's experiences of losing her mum (my grandmother) and my dad, we discuss the emotions and challenges that come with grief and the importance of allowing ourselves to feel and process those emotions.
We explore the role of music and memory in the healing process and the power of sharing stories and memories with loved ones.
Through our conversation, we offer advice and support for those who may be currently navigating their own grief journey, encouraging listeners to reach out for help and to never give up on finding joy and happiness again.
Ultimately, we remind listeners that grief is a forever journey, but that it can also be a thread of connection that keeps us connected to the love we have for those who have passed on.
Here are the key takeaways from this episode:
03:50 - No one can ever prepare you for the journey of grief
04:54 - Difficult topics only become difficult because nobody talks about it
06:36 - Grief is an expression of infinite love
07:55 - If we honoured death more, we would live more
11:09 - Give that gift of kindness and love and tenderness to yourself
16:28 - Music can be a time capsule for memories
20:22 - How music can help you in your grief journey
23:26 - To talk about death is also preparing us that we shouldn't be shocked when it happens
Songs for Grief Playlist on Spotify.
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I help you lead with fearless authenticity by smashing the self-imposed heteronormative stereotypes that keep you playing small through emotional healing inner child and inherited intergenerational trauma. Create a purposeful life of your unique design by disrupting societal norms and expectations of who you should be. Explore mindfulness, fearless curiosity and loving kindness through the lens of Human Design to thrive as the person you are born to be.
Learn more about my coaching method and join my emotional healing, mindfulness, and music community at melissaindot.com.
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Pat: Sometimes we don't value the person when they are alive. We think that this is the norm. You carry on, and then suddenly when death comes and your spouse leaves you, it hits you and say, oh my gosh, he's not here anymore. I wish I was nicer to him or her. You know, I wish I had another month. Then I can tell him or tell her and do all the things I want to do now. Say some nice things because we normally never say nice things. We only say, when we are angry with that spouse, we are so stingy with our love and expression of compliments.
[00:00:37] Melissa: Hey there. Welcome to the Fearlessly Curious Podcast, your safe space. Listen, lean in and learn the diversity of human experiences through the lens of fearless curiosity. When we learn more about each other, we also learn more about ourselves. How? Because when we listen to each other's curiosities and experiences, we relate to that which is in common, and that which sets us apart, gives us something to reflect on. We learn through and with each other. I'm grateful to you, the global community, for your curious questions. The Fearlessly Curious Podcast cannot exist without you.
[00:01:25] Melissa: So welcome to another episode of The Fearlessly Curious Podcast, and today I have my mom in my home studio again to engage in a topic that I know for a lot of people, it's hard to address. And it's a topic that I hold close to my heart. It's a topic that I am very passionate about because I feel there is a lack of education of information, and even support around the experience of grief and grieving.
[00:01:54] Melissa: Now, don't get me wrong, of course there is support out there. I'm gonna just reframe this. There is support out there, but through my own personal experience, the support comes late. It comes after the fact, and I would love to see education around grief and grieving and loss even in our schools where we talk about end of life, we talk about preparing for end of life, and we talk about what living, what life after end of life and loss can feel and look like.
[00:02:19] Melissa: And that we de-stigmatize the conversation around loss and grief. So that's framing it for today. Mom, it's so wonderful to have you on the podcast again today. I know that this topic is not an easy one to talk about, however, I feel it's one that's very important to address, which is grief.
[00:02:42] Melissa: Now, we lost dad nine years ago now. I was wondering if you could share a little bit of your grief journey. What's coming up for you right now in this moment just to share about your grief journey?
[00:02:53] Pat: Oh, the first really, really deep grief for me was when I lost my mother. I just cannot put into words what it meant to lose my mother.
[00:03:04] Pat: Even talking about this topic now, it makes me very emotional. I just couldn't believe that I don't have a mother anymore. When she left, I was in the UK so that made it worse because I was there with my children. There was school and there was no way I could come back. So, well, of course, like before we were doing exercise, trying to lose weight and all in one week I lost about nearly 10 pounds.
[00:03:32] Pat: Just grieving, you know, I'm just trying to come to terms with the loss of my mother. And of course the next very deep one was the loss of my husband nine years ago. That was another big, a big deep hole in my heart. No one can ever prepare you to the journey, to grief because even though that it's coming to an end, it still hits you like a ton of bricks when it finally happens and just, well, I guess you just have to deal with it. Because life, even there's life.
[00:04:11] Pat: There's death is one journey we all have to make. So we actually have to be prepared and know that the person that's gone probably has gone to a better place. Nobody has come back to tell us that. It's all faith, especially if the person who has left you was suffering and there was nothing one can do to help them and to watch them suffering is really painful. You know, it's just too painful for words.
[00:04:41] Melissa: First of all, I wanna say thank you. I know this is not easy for you, and I really appreciate you being so open about this. It's so important. You know, I believe it's so important when we are grieving that we don't isolate ourselves.
[00:04:54] Melissa: Nobody likes to talk about it because it's a difficult topic. But difficult topics only become difficult because nobody talks about it. And I feel that the more we can normalise talking about grief and loss, the less the stigma around it and the more that we can connect. Because at least for me, I know from losing dad, I feel like there was a loss of connection.
[00:05:14] Melissa: There's a loss. It's a loss of him, and therefore I feel a loss of connection with him. But if I talk about how I feel that I miss him, that his memories are burned bright within my heart, then I am connecting with him. I am connecting with the memory of his life, and I'm celebrating his life by talking about my love and my loss and my grief.
[00:05:36] Melissa: And I always say that grief is an expression of infinite love. I really admire that how you talk about the loss of Popo, Popo is what I call my maternal grandmother. And you can hear folks, you can hear from my mom's voice that however many years on, how many years has it been since Popo passed? 40 years on since my grandmother passed.
[00:05:58] Melissa: My mom still feels it. And of course, because I believe one of the hardest things about grief is for those who are left behind, for those who are living, is to continue with life without those that they have lost, it almost feels sinful. I know there was a bit of a guilt, at least for me around that. Like, how can I carry on living when my dad's not around?
[00:06:22] Melissa: And I can't imagine how that could have been for you, mom. You know, when you lose your partner that you've known fr how many years of your life, 80 years of your, 70 years of your life?
[00:06:32] Pat: At least more than 60 years of my life. You know, I was with him. But again, let me point this out to you. I don't think everyone feels this type of a grief when they lose a husband or a spouse or a mother, because it depends on how your relationship has been with this person that has left you.
[00:06:54] Pat: For some people it might be, it's okay, you know, life goes on, doesn't matter. And uh, because they didn't have that depth of, I don't know, love or feeling or emotion for the person who has left us. So you cannot generalise. For some people dealing with grief might not be that difficult, whereas for others is like the end of the world.
[00:07:17] Pat: They want to kill themselves because they don't wanna live without the partner, you know? So yeah. This is quite subjective, right?
[00:07:23] Melissa: It is. Yeah. Not everybody is the same. But this topic, this, the reason why we're talking about this is for those people who have experienced deep love or have experienced deep connection with the people that have lost and how to navigate that.
[00:07:37] Melissa: Because I know you know too, right? Nobody likes to talk about it, you know? And even you now I know that you've reached out to any of your now widowed friends to say, Hey, now we're all widows together, and you can share that experience. It's all part of life. And the thing is, there's no education around death.
[00:07:55] Melissa: Of course. Like you said, mom, no one can prepare you for loss. No one, right? No one can. But, if we talked about it more, if we valued death more, if we honoured that life ends with death, that death is a part of life, like you mentioned, then maybe we would live more. Maybe we would value life more if we appreciate it, that it all comes to an end. What are your thoughts on that?
[00:08:22] Pat: Yeah, I think you're quite right on that, but unfortunately, sometimes we don't value the person when they're alive. We think that this is the norm. You carry on, and then suddenly when death comes and your spouse leaves you, it hits you and say, oh my gosh, he's not here anymore.
[00:08:37] Pat: I wish I was nicer to him or her. You know, I wish I had another month. Then I can tell him or tell her and do all the things I want to do now. Say some nice things because we normally never say nice. We only say when we are angry with that spouse. We are so stingy with our love and expression of compliments.
[00:08:58] Pat: You know, we expect the person to know how we feel. Actually. They would love to hear it or they will feel the touch, you know?
[00:09:05] Melissa: It's so true. Yeah. You know, a client of mine a few weeks ago had said to me that in our sessions, she appreciates the sessions because she doesn't have to be economical with her truth.
[00:09:17] Melissa: And that's what you just reminded me of when you say, we are so stingy with our loved ones. Actually, I would even say with people in general, we're stingy with kindness. You know, let's not even talk about saying please and thank you and you're welcome. Just sort of basic etiquette, but just telling someone, Hey, I really appreciate you, or Thank you for thinking of me.
[00:09:38] Melissa: Right, just expressing that we just let things go. We take things for granted very, very easily. If we can bring more attention to the fact that none of us are getting out of here alive, meaning for all of us, our days are numbered. We also don't know when any of us are going. We make an assumption. It's an unconscious assumption that we go when we're older.
[00:10:00] Melissa: Right. But in the last 10 years, mom, you know, I have lost as well, many friends all below the age of 50, some below the age of 40, and it's shocking. Right. And I can't imagine as a parent what that might feel like to reduce your child. Because again, there's an unconscious expectation that a parent will go before their child.
[00:10:20] Pat: We are actually more stingy with words towards the people we love. Unfortunately, I don't know why. You know, for acquaintances we tend to be more polite and say nicer things, but the people nearest to us who do everything, we never show our appreciation. This really has to be spoken about it more often in schools, at home, in gatherings.
[00:10:46] Pat: Make us more aware that our loved ones, all they need is to hear you say that you appreciate what they did for you. That's all they want. Nothing else.
[00:10:58] Melissa: And I'd like to flip this a little bit, mom, because you know, yes, I agree with you. For many people that we care about, including ourselves, right? It's always, always like to hear who does not appreciate having kind words spoken.
[00:11:09] Melissa: But what if we were to flip the intention? What if I were to say to you, when you say kind things, loving things to people, it makes you feel good. So if you can't do it for someone else, do it for yourself. Give that gift of kindness and love and tenderness to yourself. I know that when I'm grateful or when I express to somebody, Hey, you know, I really appreciate you, or I love you, that fills me up.
[00:11:36] Melissa: I think that's far more powerful because when we say things or do things to please someone else, right. So we're, in a way, we're looking for that external validation. If they don't respond and meet our expectations, we can feel disappointed. So I would flip that and say, show kindness, give love, offer appreciation because of how it makes you feel.
[00:11:58] Melissa: Does it make you selfish? You know what, if it does, I don't have a problem with that. Give without expectation. And in order to give without expectation is to focus on how giving makes you feel. I love that you mentioned that. Don't be stingy with our words. So that's the whole purpose of this episode is to talk about grief, is to talk about loss, is to talk about how nothing is permanent.
[00:12:19] Melissa: Our days are numbered. Not to be morbid, but to be more appreciative, and how can we lean into being more kind to ourselves. By being more kind to others, to not be stingy with our words, to not be economical with our truth, but to be generous with our truth. I know, mom, you know, we knew like with dad that his days were really, really limited.
[00:12:44] Melissa: And I'm gonna ask you, how did you navigate that, knowing that your time was running out maybe faster than you expected with dad.
[00:12:55] Pat: Wow. Difficult question to answer. Well, I had my children there, my grandchildren there who helped me along the way because they were navigating the same feelings. So when you have numbers having the same feeling, it does help lighten the weight a little bit.
[00:13:15] Pat: We were all trying to do our best for him and show our love for him. All of us did it together. So that made the road to grief a little easier, I guess. Yeah. When you have people, if you are navigating this alone in a far away land, just you and a spouse, I think that would be really tough. Because on the moment, you need to share this with somebody who feels the same way about this person.
[00:13:41] Pat: If you are all alone, I guess that's very, very tough. So I was lucky enough to have my loved ones with me.
[00:13:50] Melissa: Yeah. And I remember that. I remember all of us navigating this in our own way, quietly. Because we didn't need to talk about it. It didn't need to be said or spoken about, but we understood it and we all mucked in.
[00:14:02] Melissa: We all thought deeply about what kind of memories we wanted to build and create in these final days, right? We were abundant, we showed up. We were just being present. And sometimes being present means not talking. It's just about imprinting in you what it feels like to be in the same room as that person to be present with that person to hold hands.
[00:14:27] Melissa: And I know that you listen to music with dad. Can you share a little bit about that? I have like this really powerful visual memory imprinted in me, you and dad sitting in his hospital room side by side on chairs. We had the speaker there and you were just holding hands and just listening to music. And sometimes you were humming, sometimes you were singing, sometimes you looked at each other. Could you share what that experience looked and felt like for you? Because as a memory, it's visceral for me and fills me with so much joy.
[00:14:59] Pat: I remember one especially in the hospital when we brought music there, we played all the songs from Nat King Cole. My husband is a great fan of Nat King Cole. All the lovely songs we've known, we've songs since I was like 14 years old and he was like 18. All those songs you can imagine. And at that time when we were listening to the song, we were 54 years into our marriage, coming to past 54 years. And when we heard all those songs, I said, isn't these songs beautiful. He said, you know what? I don't think I'll be ever able to sing again. I can't sing anymore. So that really hit me. You know? So of course you can. You'll always be able to sing cuz you're a very good singer. You beat me at a first singing competition, remember? So we had a little laugh. So that was quite a poignant moment for me. Music.
[00:15:58] Melissa: And there you said it, poignant moment. This again, is about not being economical with your truth. It's being able to be so vulnerable with each other, so honest with each other, and having these memories that are imprinted in music. So now when you listen to that music, right, mom, you have two sets of memories.
[00:16:17] Melissa: You have memories of when you were as teenagers singing together, and you have this very poignant moment. And each time we recall memories and listening to music can help us do that. Music can be a time capsule for memories. It's a way that we can connect again with those who have passed. I feel it's so important for us to normalise all our emotions, right?
[00:16:39] Melissa: People are very comfortable to feel happy and to celebrate connection. But it's okay to feel sadness because we love someone so deeply. Of course we miss them, and of course we feel sad. What do you feel about that, mom? How do you feel about honouring the sadness that we feel when we grieve?
[00:16:57] Pat: If there's no sadness, there's no happiness. You see when you feel sad and then you think, oh, they were great moments, and now I can have a smile after a tear. You know what I mean? Crying for joy sometimes. Let me, did have these special moments.
[00:17:20] Melissa: I love that you said that you can have a smile after a tear. And to me what that speaks to is that if we don't allow ourselves to feel sadness, then we deny ourselves the joy that comes after it.
[00:17:32] Melissa: And then that deep gratitude that you feel for the fact that you have these memories that you were able to experience these moments that you now hold so dear in your. Do you have any tips, I would say, or maybe kind, gentle advice to give to anybody who might be navigating that grief journey right now as they're listening to this podcast? What might be some suggestions that you could give them to navigate grief, which can feel so isolating and so infinitely painful?
[00:18:11] Pat: Do not block. Grieve. Cry as much as you want. Cry your heart out. Cry anytime you feel you wanna cry. You feel better after that is crying. Remembering the wonderful times you have with him and crying that one day you'll meet him again.
[00:18:30] Pat: This is only a temporary separation. Think of it that way. And he wants you to be happy while he's not with you. He wants you to be there with your family, your children, because your children love you. So he wants you to be happy. You're not ready to go yet, so just feel good about it. Cry and smile and listen to music and do what you need to do. Don't give up all your enjoyment. He doesn't want you to grieve and sit in a corner and mope. No, he's gone. That's it.
[00:19:05] Melissa: Thank you, mom. And for me, I would say, I would definitely amplify what mom said. Cry whenever you need cry. Crying is a, it's a biological function actually that helps us relieve our stress.
[00:19:18] Melissa: So scientifically, it's good for you. The other thing that I would say is don't be afraid to ask for help. Counselling, professional help, counselling's available, therapy is available. That's a tough one. However, I will say, the first point of contact that we often forget are the doctors, especially if you are dealing with grief with someone you've lost from medical illness.
[00:19:43] Melissa: Go to the doctors and ask for their referrals. Okay? A lot of the time, just simply knowing that there is somebody to call can make all the difference, even if you don't call them, but just knowing that there's someone there. And then exploring the local regional support system, the Samaritans, for example, as a global brand that are available.
[00:20:06] Melissa: Get the number, just have it at hand just to remind yourself that if you need, there is somebody, there's always somebody there. Take that step. Stretch yourself to just simply take that step. It does make a difference to know that, and if you have family members, reach out to your family members.
[00:20:22] Melissa: Everybody's gonna be dealing with grief differently. Some better than others, as mom mentioned. But don't be afraid to ask for help. And one of the most profound tools I use with grief is music. Music allows me, supports me in my tears, but it also helps me to revisit beautiful memories of my time with that person.
[00:20:44] Melissa: And I think one of the most important points to remember about grief at least, is that it is a forever journey. Right. It's not something you get over, because think about it, you don't get over somebody. Your love does not end for somebody just because you've lost them. So there're gonna be moments in your life five days later, five weeks, five months, five years, 50 years later.
[00:21:07] Melissa: That you're just gonna have that pang of grief. And if you can view that pang of sadness as a thread of connection, that that is that moment where you are connecting again with the love that you have for that person, then you view that emotion very differently. Is there anything else you wanted to add, mom?
[00:21:25] Pat: Yeah. I forgot one very, very important point. When you are grieving, God is always there listening. Say a prayer, speak to him, speak to God. I find great comfort after I speak to God to help you deal with this pain, give you the strength and the faith and the hope, and not be afraid. He's always by our side to comfort us. So he's one person. Anytime you can reach anyone else, you can reach God. So a prayer. He's only a prayer away.
[00:22:02] Melissa: That's beautiful, mom. For all of those who have a faith to lean into that faith is an extremely powerful anchor. So in closing for this session, I wanna say, mom, thank you so much for agreeing to be part of this.
[00:22:13] Melissa: I know it's not been easy. You've dug really deep, and I feel very proud to have you on this episode speaking about something that is so difficult and modelling to everybody how it is possible. And it is okay to talk about our grief and to be with our grief. So friends listening, remember to talk about death is not to be morbid.
[00:22:34] Melissa: Let's take that label, that belief, that mindset away to talk about death is to appreciate life. I'm gonna say that again. To talk about death is to appreciate life. And God knows, humans know we can definitely do with appreciating life more because that way we give ourselves permission to live bigger, to live louder, to live more expanded.
[00:23:01] Melissa: And it also gives us an opportunity to live with more kindness. So when we remember that our days are numbered and that our age has nothing to do with when we part this earth, then we can dig a little deeper to give ourselves the gift of joy and kindness by being joyful and kind to others. Thank you again for listening. Mom, did you wanna say something?
[00:23:26] Pat: Yeah. To talk about death is also preparing us that we shouldn't be shocked when it happens. Preparing us. That's the point I'd like to make.
[00:23:39] Melissa: Thank you, mom. Thank you. So thank you for listening. If you have any questions around grief or grieving, if you are grieving right now and you would like some support, please reach out to me on any social media platforms, whether it's YouTube, whether it's on Instagram or LinkedIn or on TikTok, or if you head to my website, www.melissaindot.com, you'll be able to find a link there to get into the community, the online community, and reach out to me, find a way to reach out to me, okay? I'm there for you to support you on your grief journey because it means supporting you on your life journey. We will find a way. It is not the end. It is the beginning of another incredible experience of your life. Until next time, my friends, please stay fearlessly curious.
[00:24:37] Melissa: If you want more, make sure to subscribe so you never miss a new episode every Friday. And please leave a review if you enjoy this episode. Don't forget to send me your curious questions and experiences as inspiration for future episodes. Your anonymity will be respected. If that's what you prefer. For more guidance and support, join my emotional healing, mindfulness and music community over at melissaindot.com. See you next week.
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